Here’s an update on where I am regarding my plan to move out of the USA by 2025 (or sooner) under a five flags model (or close to it).

For a quick review, five flags means instead of wedding your entire life to one nation, you instead spread your life across five or more countries in order for maximum freedom, minimum taxes, and heightened safety against shitty governments (particularly collapsing Western ones). These countries are:

County A – Where you actually live, but you are not a citizen there and don’t own any assets there (you rent your home). This country does not tax foreign income (which means the USA does not qualify).

Country B – The country where you have citizenship and a passport, but you don’t live there. (Or if you do, it’s only part time or temporary.) This country does not tax foreign income.

Country C – A third country where your legal business structure is based, in a tax haven that has low or zero taxes on business income. You don’t live there and you don’t keep very much money in your business; just enough to cover day-to-day operating expenses. Any excess money goes to…

Country D – A fourth country, or countries, where you have your assets and investments. This country does not tax capital gains income. Stateless assets like cryptocurrency also qualify.

Country E – A fifth country where you buy your big personal purchases, like clothing, electronics, vacations, and so on. This is a country with low or zero sales or VAT taxes.

As you can see, structuring all this is pretty complicated, therefore I won’t be doing all of it, just some of it. I suppose if I was worth hundreds of millions of dollars I would do all of it, but I’m not wealthy enough to go that crazy with this stuff.

I’ve been working on this plan part time for the last few years, and here’s where I currently am with it as of now, April 2018. Any of this is subject to change as I glean new information or as laws change.

My Country A in all likelihood will be New Zealand, but I will likely only stay there six months out of the year, since it’s possible they will hit me with a residence tax if I stay longer, even if I’m not a NZ citizen, which I will not be. There may be legal ways around this and I’m working on it.

I will be in New Zealand next month, checking it out in great detail. Unless I hate what I see, which I doubt, I will be back at least twice in 2019, likely with Pink Firefly with me to make sure we like it enough to set up our home base there.

Why New Zealand? It’s definitely part of the West, which is a downside, but it’s got very little debt as compared to USA/Europe and its proximity to the Rising East will likely help protect it from the major problems coming to USA/Europe. Like Australia, there’s a lot of Chinese money in NZ, which is a good thing. It’s also not as cheap as I would like, but on the overall it will actually be slightly less expensive than where I currently live in the Pacific Northwest, USA. Plus, in several more years my income will be much higher than it is now and my investments will be greater, so I probably won’t give a shit about this as much as I do today.

Beyond that, its pluses are that it’s beautiful, the people are nice, I can live on or near the water without it being massively expensive, and it’s much closer to Asia than South America is, where I was looking earlier.

Its minuses are that it’s hopelessly left-wing/socialist/SJW like Australia, the women aren’t very attractive, and its location, while good for going to Asia, is very inconvenient when visiting the rest of the West (outside of Australia). I’m well aware of these downsides and will account for them when I move there.

My Country B will actually be several countries. As I’ve talked about before, I want the option of renouncing my US citizenship in the future, and having just one extra tier C passport for this isn’t going to cut it. So over the next seven years, I will work towards getting another two or more passports.

First will be Italy, where I will pursue ancestral citizenship, a tedious paperwork process that takes about 3-4 years, which I will begin this year. I’m eligible for this since I have Italian heritage, and one of my cousins already did it. Italy is a great passport to have, and offers visa-free travel to many countries.

Next will be Panama, where I can set up a business, deposit a few thousand dollars, then spend some time there over the next several years (but not live there) and be qualified to receive a passport by the time 2025 rolls around (or sooner).  Nice. In November I will be in Panama to start this process.

Next will be Comoros, a small African island nation with a weaker passport, but it only costs $40,000 to get (plus legal and governmental fees).

Lastly, and optionally, only if I need it, will be Antigua, a Caribbean nation where you can get a passport for you and everyone in your family for about $140,000. This is quite expensive so I’ll have to make a mathematical judgment call if that expense is worth it in 7-10 years once I already have some or all of the passports above. It may not be, and the price may even change by then. Regardless, it’s attractive since Pink Firefly could also get a second passport (assuming the government of Antigua accepts her as a legal spouse; not sure if that’s the case). I might even be able to get Antiguan passports for my children, which would be great.

My Country C is the most complicated choice but also the choice that’s the most easy to implement. Country A and B take years of work and planning, but you can set up a foreign business entity with a foreign checking account in less than two weeks. So right now, I’m not sure what my Country C will be, and at the moment, I don’t care much. The two countries I’m looking at at the moment are the Cook Islands and Georgia, but this may change.

My Country D is numerous countries, some of which I already have investments in. Countries currently on my D list are Singapore, Australia, Cambodia, China, Hong Kong, and several others, with speculative investments in places like Canada, Switzerland and Viet Nam. Like Country C, Country D is pretty easy. Also, many investments are “stateless” like precious metals you own and cryptocurrencies, which “count” towards being out of your home country.

My Country E is pretty optional, since I don’t really spend recreational money outside of traveling and going to restaurants. Other than underwear and socks, I buy clothing maybe once every other year (seriously) and live very simply. I’m even going to try to not own a car once I make my exit from the USA, instead using rentals and ride sharing services. Regardless, whenever I need to get a new laptop or TV, I’ll get them in Singapore, since it’s the cheapest place to get electronics, perhaps in the entire world. Beyond that, I really don’t care. This will be a bigger problem for Pink Firefly since she’s a girl and girls tend to spend more money on this kind of stuff. We have separate finances so this really isn’t my issue.

That’s it so far! I will continue to keep you all updated on my progress as I go forward with this.

31 Comments on “Moving Out of the Country: Current Plan – April 2018

  1. You know, the funny thing is I’m only 20, and I’m already planning out my Five Flags Plan.

    But since my Mission is to travel the world and get funky with exotic women and get protection from Governments by becoming filthy rich (and more!), it makes sense for me to start early.

    By the way, do you think corruption will cause much trouble in getting your Panamanian passport? Aside for Chile and maybe Uruguay, Latin American countries are known for inefficiency and incompetence in terms of social and political functions.

    For instance, although it says on paper you can get a Paraguay passport after 3 years residency, it actually only means that Gov officials can consider giving you one. Hence, there are expats who have not received a Paraguay passport in 15 years! Then again, they never assimilated into the local culture either…

    Gotta love that Third World Gov!

  2. There is something I don’t get. The way you put it, you will not be a NZ tax resident (maybe I misunderstood your “residence tax” comment). According to most double tax treaties, if you don’t live for more than 6 months anywhere you pay personal taxes in the country where you hold the greatest vital and economic interests. Which will that be?

  3. Is it even worth it to buy things in one country and sending them to your resident country – seems like the shipping costs would off-set the amount you saved in sales taxes? Not to mention it sounds more like a hassle.

  4. What if I’m not trying to avoid high taxes and related stuff but only trying to pick a relatively developed country (other than China and other highly authoritarian states) that’s very unlikely to be affected much by a western collapse, what would you recommend?

  5. By the way, do you think corruption will cause much trouble in getting your Panamanian passport?

    It may certainly cause delays, yes. That’s why I’m going after four passports instead of just one.

    Were you still planning to check out South America?

    Oh yes. I’ll be there in November; Paraguay, Argentina, and Chile. Probably not going to live there though.

    So what visa will you use to be able to stay in NZ for 6 months every year?

    NZ Visitors visas from most other first-world countries allow stays of up to 9 months per year:

    https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/options/visit/explore-visitor-visa-options#

    According to most double tax treaties, if you don’t live for more than 6 months anywhere you pay personal taxes in the country where you hold the greatest vital and economic interests. Which will that be?

    NZ doesn’t work this way as far as I know.

    When I go there next month, I will be visiting with several attorneys there to get the definitive answer on these kinds of questions.

    Is it even worth it to buy things in one country and sending them to your resident country – seems like the shipping costs would off-set the amount you saved in sales taxes?

    Only if it’s physically small, like something you can carry on the plane with you, like a laptop.

    Not to mention it sounds more like a hassle.

    I agree, which is why I probably won’t bother. Again, I don’t buy a lot of “stuff” anyway.

    What if I’m not trying to avoid high taxes and related stuff but only trying to pick a relatively developed country (other than China and other highly authoritarian states) that’s very unlikely to be affected much by a western collapse, what would you recommend?

    SE Asia.

  6. Currently reading the Nomad Capitalist, complements The Unchained Man. Eye opener to expanding your horizons beyond home country.

  7. Seems like country C would be pretty optional for you.  Your businesses are just servers, which can be backed up and moved to another cloud provider in a matter of hours.  If you have your investments in Singapore or Hong Kong, you will obviously have checking accounts out of reach of your countries of citizenship and residency.

    The main difficulty is disconnecting with uncle sam.  (Which you obviously realize as you are looking at getting up to 4 passports.)  The tentacles are everywhere, and they have the resources to really fuck you up if they want to.  Italy is a great replacement, because they have a reputation for laziness and don’t have the resources to bother anyone outside their borders.

  8. Seems like country C would be pretty optional for you.

    It’s not. Legally, it doesn’t matter where the server is. It matters which country the legal business entity is located/registered and which country the business checking account is located.

    Though yes, long-term in the future I would prefer all my websites to be hosted on servers far outside of the US, mostly because of the very un-PC topics I discuss, as America becomes more Europe-like with its growing hatred of free speech.

    Your businesses are just servers, which can be backed up and moved to another cloud provider in a matter of hours.

    True. (Though two of my businesses are even better since they don’t require servers.)

    The main difficulty is disconnecting with uncle sam.  (Which you obviously realize as you are looking at getting up to 4 passports.)  The tentacles are everywhere, and they have the resources to really fuck you up if they want to.  Italy is a great replacement, because they have a reputation for laziness and don’t have the resources to bother anyone outside their borders.

    Actually, not just Italy, but the vast, vast majority of all the nations on Earth will leave their citizens completely alone if they’re outside their borders. America The Authoritarian Land of the Free is a bastardized and mutated exception to the rule, not a representation of the norm.

  9. Something that really sticks out to me that I do not see many of those talking about Georgia discussing, is the risk of having your businesses in Georgia. Russia already has already successfully taken over parts of the country in the north. I wouldn’t put it past Russia to want to reclaim the entire country, especially if they see an opportunity due to something geopolitical.

    I think it is fine to keep certain business entities there as long as they aren’t holding substantial business assets, or anything crucial to the ongoing operations of the business.  Should something happen there, where overnight you are now doing business in Russia, it could be a nightmare.

    My point is that whenever people mention Georgia as a place to have a business – it should go along with a warning about how/what you are setting up there.

  10. Something that really sticks out to me that I do not see many of those talking about Georgia discussing, is the risk of having your businesses in Georgia. Russia already has already successfully taken over parts of the country in the north. I wouldn’t put it past Russia to want to reclaim the entire country, especially if they see an opportunity due to something geopolitical.

    Correct; this is one of Georgia’s big downsides.

    As another commenter suggested above, moving businesses isn’t a big deal for me. I can set up a new business entity and checking account within 2 weeks at the most.

    I think it is fine to keep certain business entities there as long as they aren’t holding substantial business assets

    Exactly. Holy shit, I would never keep ANY assets in ANY Eastern European nation, period. Eastern Europe is in Europe, and Europe is going down. (On top of the Russia problem!)

    But a business entity? Maybe.

  11. I have heard that NZ women are… well, ugly. But even if that’s true I am sure it’s not all of them, so you can probably make it work (as a sugar daddy in the worst case).

    May I ask why do you prefer NZ over countries like Uruguay and Chile? I heard that Uruguay is nice and safe, even a bit boring, with lifestyle reasonably close to European.  Chile is supposedly doing quite well (economically) recently too.

  12. How much simpler would the 5 flags strategy be if I only have retirement income to shelter?  Would the retiree only need countries A, B and D?

  13. I have heard that NZ women are… well, ugly.

    They definitely are. I mentioned that already.

    But even if that’s true I am sure it’s not all of them, so you can probably make it work (as a sugar daddy in the worst case).

    Correct. I’ve already checked out the dating sites and sugar daddy sites in Auckland, and oh yeah, and I’ll be juuuuuust fine. 🙂

    Like I’ve said before, I only need one or two cuties, not 200.

    May I ask why do you prefer NZ over countries like Uruguay and Chile?

    1. S. America is way too far away from Asia, where I will be spending most of my future work time.

    2. I’d rather not have to learn Spanish (I know, I realize you don’t have to learn it to live in those places, but I would if I lived there).

    3. I like the climate in NZ a little more than S. America.

    4. NZ is more welcoming to foreigners than Chile (not sure abut Uruguay).

    5. Far lower crime rates in NZ.

    S. America is still a very good option though; the cost of living is great down there.

    How much simpler would the 5 flags strategy be if I only have retirement income to shelter?

    Much simpler.

    Would the retiree only need countries A, B and D?

    More or less, yes, but if your retirement comes from an American source you won’t be able to save as much on taxes as me. You may not care though. Move to somewhere super cheap like Thailand or Argentina, work on getting a 2nd passport from somewhere else, and you’re good to go.

  14. Instead, I will be following a simpler Three Flags model, where you have a passport in one country, live in a second country, and have your business based in a third country. I may also have investments in a smattering of other countries, though my investment strategy changes based on world conditions, so that may change.

    Caleb, you originally were going to do a Three Flags model. Why have you switched to a Five Flags model?

  15. Caleb, you originally were going to do a Three Flags model. Why have you switched to a Five Flags model?

    I really didn’t. If you read what I said in the article above, it’s pretty much the same as what I said in your link. I’m not really going to do the fifth flag, and partially doing the fourth.

  16. America becomes more Europe-like with its growing hatred of free speech.

    Not to burst your bubble, but many European countries rank, and have ranked for a long time, a lot higher in free speech than the US.

    See for instance the World Press Freedom Index. The top 5 countries are all Scandinavian and the Netherlands. US is ranked #43.

     

    I would love to pay less than my 50 % tax rate, though.

  17. I would love to pay less than my 50 % tax rate, though.

    Portuguese NHR? Czech 15% tax for self-employed people, where 40% of the income can be excluded from taxation, so the rate becomes 9%? There are very reasonable options without ever leaving the EEA.

  18. Not to burst your bubble, but many European countries rank, and have ranked for a long time, a lot higher in free speech than the US.

    Not to burst your bubble, but Scandinavian countries actually arrest and/or litigate people just for verbalizing opinions, and the USA generally does not (yet). The USA does indeed enjoy more free speech than Scandinavia (at the moment). Here’s just a few links out of hundreds I could point to:

    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7452/denmark-free-speech-islam

    https://www.economist.com/blogs/erasmus/2016/02/terror-free-speech-and-denmark

    https://spectator.org/42285_death-free-speech-netherlands/

    https://www.humanityinaction.org/knowledgebase/294-the-criminalization-of-hate-speech-in-the-netherlands

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/07/europes-freedom-of-speech-fail/

    See for instance the World Press Freedom Index. The top 5 countries are all Scandinavian and the Netherlands. US is ranked #43.

    Not to burst your bubble, but I already attacked the USA for that very issue just a two weeks ago right here. Yes, many European nations are less unfree than the USA when you add everything up; that’s why I’m getting the fuck out of this country. But at the moment, the USA does enjoy more free speech… until it becomes more Europe-like in its anti-free speech attitudes.

    And FYI – having this weird reflex to leap in and defend your country/region any time anyone says anything negative about it, particularly in my case when it’s factually accurate, not only makes you look irrational, but will never lead you to any objectivity or right action in your life.

    You don’t see me doing this with my country/region. You shouldn’t do it with yours.

    Objectivity. Give it a try. I know it’s hard.

  19. Well BD, those things are all very 2%ish. If you publish something anti-Muslim in a country with strong anti-hate-speech laws, the probabilities are of about the same magnitude that you would be fined, or that some Muslim would physically assault you, or that the platform where you published your message would ban you; and that the latter two are where the real problems are.

    In particular, Facebook or YouTube or a similar service will eagerly ban you. Hate speech just costs them money because of possible media backlash, boycotts etc., more money than the revenue you would have brought them. And this problem is very much international.

    Also note that the outcries you cited, even though they seem valid, also seem blown out of proportion, just focusing on single cases. And some laws mentioned have already been repealed, as a cursory Google search shows. In general, the situation with free speech in some European countries seems worse than in the US, but just by a tiny amount.

    Just for the record, if anyone cares, my stance on hate speech is as follows: it should be an aggravating circumstance for existing crimes. E. g. death threats are already illegal, but death threats to Jews should result in more severe punishments.

  20. @Caleb Jones

    While I certainly get your message about objectivity, some of those articles you cited are fake news. For instance, the imam with the whole “Jew incident” did get charged, and you are very free to cite whichever parts of Islam that you disagree with. Somebody can simply accuse you of racism, a claim which the police is forced to investigate, but unless it is blatant racism, you are free to say whatever you want.

    The blasphemy paragrah that your sources cite as a “construction to protect islam” is a law from 1866 that was recently repealed rather than put in effect. Thus, they are wrong on all accounts.

    Unfortunately, all the sources you cited (for Denmark) have no basis in reality.

    Yet you are very correct that everything is currently going south over here – Freedom of speech is getting more limited by the minute, and the media have become way too PC to be worth watching. I’ve uninstalled my TV many years ago. But I still do have a lot of SP regarding my home country that will probably not go away any time soon.

  21. Well BD, those things are all very 2%ish.

    Correct and I never said they weren’t. I was responding to JEB’s incorrect statements, not stating any major concern I have. Scandinavia has less free speech than the USA, and I am not concerned about either culture, both of which are collapsing.

  22. Choosing New Zealand as your Country A is is probably the best choice for you.

    One of the biggest downsides from my perspective is that life will be rather quiet and predictable over there. However, the advantages clearly outweigh the disadvantages.

    Beautiful nature and landscapes, clean air,  safety,  English-speaking and close to Asia. You can always travel if you’d ever feel the desire to have more “hustle and bustle”.

    New Zealand seems to be a very popular choice for people who see the West collapsing. I am sure that you will enjoy your first visit in NZ!

     

  23. Scandinavia has less free speech than the USA,

    While I don’t think we should keep beating the subject, this claim is completely baseless and founded in SP.

    Any search will reveal that the US is below all the scandinavian countries in all indexes of free speech.

    -World press freedom index

    -Human freedom index

    -Press freedom index

    -Economist intelligence unit democracy index

    -Freedomhouse, including Freedom in the world and Freedom in the press

    If you can find me any report that would show that the US was more free, I’ll have to take my hat off. But claiming anything based on two fake news articles you dug up is a clear sign that your opinion is completely based on SP rather than any objective facts.

  24. Somebody can simply accuse you of racism, a claim which the police is forced to investigate, but unless it is blatant racism, you are free to say whatever you want.

    And that’s not stifling free speech? Besides, the standard for what constitutes “blatant racism” has been getting tighter and tighter by the year. I guess soon even pointing out that “the skin differences and some susceptibilities to illnesses among different ethnicities are the result of biological evolution by natural selection” will qualify as blatantly racist – since the politically correct are already extremely uneasy when they hear it now.

  25. Why the fuck has the police any business “investigating” racism? To me, racism – when it’s just speech, not factual discrimination – is just an example of being an asshole. It should be legal to be an asshole in a free society.

  26. And that’s not stifling free speech?

    That’s not he way he sees it based on his cultural SP. It’s like when Americans say “What gun culture?” or when Europeans say “What welfare state?” He’s a fish in the ocean saying, “What water? I don’t see any water anywhere! You’re crazy!”

  27. So much for new zealand.  There are all kinds of rules and proposed rules to ban foreign land ownership.  At the very least, foreigners are being scape goated for their problems and may no longer be welcome.

    We’ll see what the future brings.  I’ve been reading that the Chinese economic “miracle” ended 10 years ago.  I’m guessing that with the fed tightening rates and trade tariffs being imposed, foreign investment will be flowing out.  It may be too late to start investing in Asia.

  28. There are all kinds of rules and proposed rules to ban foreign land ownership.

    Precisely why I won’t own any land in NZ, as I clearly stated in the article.

    At the very least, foreigners are being scape goated for their problems and may no longer be welcome.

    Incorrect. The odds of the docile and extremely left-wing people of NZ actually kicking peaceful, law-abiding foreigners out of their land, or treating them like shit, falls well in within the 2% Rule.

    I’ve been reading that the Chinese economic “miracle” ended 10 years ago.

    Correct, and I’ve said this myself. China will continue to experience moderate growth instead of skyrocketing growth, as opposed to the USA / Europe which is declining.

    It may be too late to start investing in Asia.

    As opposed to… where else?

    Your money is far better off in a stagnant East than a collapsing West.

  29. I know this is off-topic, but I want to bring it to your attention (maybe you have thoughts on this and they’ll end up in a post later?).

    Cultural programming is doing all it can to make women impossible to relate-with, impossible in relations that is.

    I date online a lot, and see a crisp difference from 2009-2012 and 2015-now, the thing is “snowballing”.

    It’s not a “They act like this because they don’t like me” thing. I am as likeable and unlikeable as I was then. The striking change of attitude is not due to changes in me.

    You are in an environment of patent insanity, where they will try to bully/be aggressive/draw a sensation of powerfulness from every single exchange while at the same time, as we know, having nothing but disdain for what they read as “weakness”.

    So you have to:

    1) Play stupid games of power no-stop.
    2) Not bow to out-of-gear narcissistic entitlement, and at the same time not “offend it”. That is: bow, a little. Don’t bow, but bow.
    3) Don’t be arrogant; but be arrogant. Because there’s nature and programming to comply with, and, whoopsie-oopsie, they happen to run contrary to each other, so you have to be a two-faced actor, or two-program device as well.

    It’s a war, a downgrade of traditional wars for narcissistic inferiority-complexed children, and someone mature and self-conscious enough really struggles to see the point to it.

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