This is the first in a series of three articles that will provide an overview of how you can create a life of maximum freedom and masculine happiness via the Alpha Male 2.0 Lifestyle. These are all in preparation for the Maximum Freedom Alpha Male 2.0 Lifestyle course that will be released on August 30th for just one week. A free video from the course is located below, so you can get an idea of the content and style of 16+ hours of video you’ll receive in the course.
As a quick aside, from now until September 5th, the usual posting schedule for both the Blackdragon Blog and the Caleb Jones Blog will be a little different. The normal posting schedules will resume for both blogs after September 5th when the Maximum Freedom course becomes unavailable.
Designing an Alpha Male 2.0 Life
When the term “Alpha Male 2.0” is used, it usually denotes a type of man. It can also be used to describe a lifestyle, a particular way of living in which freedom and masculine happiness are maximized as much as is feasibly possible for the long-term.
Most men construct their lives based on one thing: Societal Programming. Whether it makes sense or not, whether it’s factually accurate or not, or whether or not it will make them happy in the long term, men sadly use mostly false and/or outdated societal programming as a guiding standard for their lives.
Examples of this would be things like:
- Go to college
- Get a good job
- Date one woman at a time
- Get a monogamous girlfriend
- Have a traditional, monogamous marriage
- Have kids (ideally, as many as you can)
- Vote for Democrats and Republicans, but no one else (use your equivalents if you live outside of the USA)
- Live the way your parents want
- Do what your wife/girlfriend wants
- Buy lots of cool stuff
- Go into debt
- Join the religion your parents had and obey its rules
And so on.
Some of these things were really good ideas 60 or 80 years ago but are now detrimental to a man’s happiness. Some of these things were never good ideas. But none of that matters; most men follow some or all of these things and devote the core of their lives to them.
The result of all this is always reduced freedom for the man. This, then, results in reduced happiness for the man. It can’t be any other way. Scientific studies clearly show that men are happy to the degree to which they are free. That means they can, within legal and ethical constraints, do whatever they want, whenever they want, without having to check in or get permission from anyone.
So, the modern–day man follows the tenets of false or outdated societal programming and lives a life of low freedom, resulting in low, moderate, or infrequent happiness. Sure, he’s happy every once in a while, but he’s never consistently happy. He can’t be – even if he’s a pretty amazing guy.
The Alpha Male 2.0 lifestyle either rejects or heavily modifies the tenets of societal programming. Instead of following systems that make him less free and less happy, the Alpha Male 2.0 follows systems that increase his freedom and maintains his freedom for the rest of his life. This means he is the happiest man in the Western world, perhaps barring the super-rich (and the Alpha 2.0 doesn’t have to be anything close to rich – that’s the beauty of this lifestyle).
The Three Foundational Baselines
As I discussed in my primary book, The Unchained Man, there are Seven Life Areas (the SLA) that might be important to a man. However, three of those areas are important to all men (barring very bizarre and rare exceptions).
These are:
- his financial life (his career, business, income, savings, investments, etc.)
- his woman life (his sex life, dating life, relationship life, etc.)
- his physical life / overall health (Note: this only applies to men age 35 and over)
If he wants to be happy, a man needs a decent amount of money to live, to maintain the baseline lifestyle aspects he wants, and to be financially secure in his old age.
If he wants to be happy, a man needs regular sex from women he finds attractive, and most older men will want to pair-bond with a woman in a way that won’t threaten or damage their sex lives or their hard-earned money.
If he wants to be happy, a man over age 35 needs to be as healthy as he can within the constraints of his age and genetics. (Men under age 35 need to be healthy too, but most men under 35 don’t need to do anything special to maintain decent health or good looks. Men over 35 certainly do.)
The Alpha Male 2.0 lifestyle focuses on these three key areas.
The Alpha Male 2.0 makes money in a way that maximizes freedom instead of constrains it. He has his own business(es) that is/are 100% location-independent, brings in at least $75,000 per year, can be worked on whenever he chooses, and only needs 30 hours per week or less to maintain.
The Alpha Male 2.0 dates and has sex with women in a way that maximizes his freedom instead of constrains it. He dates multiple women (two or more) instead of just one. He has mutually consensual sex with whomever he wants, whenever he wants, even if he has a serious girlfriend (OLTR) or wife, without having to lie to anyone or hide anything. If his relationships fail, his money and his sex life continue unharmed.
The Alpha Male 2.0 over the age of 35 ages as well as he can, as healthfully as he can, within the constraints of his age and genetics, so he can be as happy as possible and as attractive to women as possible even in his older years.
These three areas make up the core of the the Alpha Male 2.0 lifestyle. It is a step-by-step system to maximize your freedom with your money and your dating/sex life. Once these two things are solidly in place, such a man is now poised to focus on the other areas of life he finds important (family, children, fitness, social life, and so on), but now, because of his Alpha 2.0 financial and sexual baselines, these things will set him free instead of enslave him to the typical Societal Programming models.
The Maximum Freedom Course covers how to design all this for yourself in step-by-step detail. Here is a sample video from the course regarding one of the most common questions I get: When is it okay to quit my job once my Alpha 2.0 business is making money? Most of the videos include some of my lovely assistants, but this one is just me.
Take a look: it’s just one of the 62 different videos you get, and it’s one of the shortest ones (most of them are much longer).
In the second installment in this series, I’ll go into detail on how to design the financial and sexual baselines, starting from scratch. That’s coming in a few days.
Also, let me know if you have any questions, comments, or objections regarding the course, and I’ll be happy to answer.
Want over 35 hours of how-to podcasts on how to improve your woman life and financial life? Want to be able to coach with me twice a month? Want access to hours of technique-based video and audio? The SMIC Program is a monthly podcast and coaching program where you get access to massive amounts of exclusive, members-only Alpha 2.0 content as soon as you sign up, and you can cancel whenever you want. Click here for the details.
Right… “Scientific studies clearly show that men are happy to the degree to which they are free. ”
Proceed to list them. I’ll wait. Then I’ll look into them.
Sure. Here’s a few random ones from my list, but I have many others.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10902-015-9620-1
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10902-019-00103-z
https://www.happinessresearchinstitute.com/
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/20/this-harvard-study-reveals-how-you-can-be-happier-and-more-successful.html
Freedom is almost always one of the core factors in happiness when they focus on men. Not always, but usually. Most of the more detailed studies are behind paywalls so if you want to check them out you’ll have to purchase them like I did. (However, based on the tone of your comment, I have a feeling you’ve already made up your mind.)
thanks for doing this. haven’t steered me wrong. in an airport and rubbing my hands in excitement especially for that leaving the job visualization.
first month or so living at my own apartment as per your advice and noticing a major positive difference in overall clarity, problem solving, habit building, and time mgmt in the process of adapting to the challenge and mission.
Riiight.. Proceed to list them.
Caleb list them..
It cracked me up! Hilarious stuff! 😄 Am I only one who finds those type of people funny? The “we have a problem for every solution” guys. Incredible!
Someone lives a pretty good life. For some even perfect life. Wishes to share that information with you. And in return you look to find a way to argue with him or ruin it. Bravo.
While I’m patiently putting all pieces together for building my Alpha 2.0 life only thing that bothers me is if there will be too many of us so it won’t longer be possible or achievable . Then I see these type of guys and it makes me calm and assured.
Some (most) people just want to be beta or Alpha 1.0. Even if you live better than them, earn more money than them, fuck better women than them. Noup! They will make some bullshit excuse to not agree with you and assure themselves that they are right. Amazing people. Talk about being irrational.
I’ve looked at the first article you listed so far. I’m coming into this with an open mind. I don’t care for proving my point.
I’ll come back after I read all of them top to bottom.
In the first article, table 1, it summarizes how the respondents weighted categories in their life in relation to their happiness.
This was not a male only study, but they divide the genders later in the study. But aside from that fact, out of the 768 subjects, they decided that freedom was weighted at 3%. Relationships at 42.4% and physical+mental health at 34%.
Then in table 4, which looked at men vs women, even then, it scored extremely low in importance to both men and women alike in terms of happiness. 1.96 vs 20’s for relationship and health.
Now don’t misinterpret what I’m saying. I’m not saying freedom isn’t important. But it’s nothing like what you are selling. It’s not important at all compared to relationships and health.
I’m open to discussion. And boy, I’m sure I’ll have a lot to say when I’m thoroughly done checking the articles. Be sure to have read them too. I’ll be doing a formal pro and cons for each in the near future.
Ok, the 2nd article you listed: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10902-015-9620-1
Has absolutely NOTHING to do with freedom. It analyzes the difference between whites and blacks in terms of social economic status over the years to come. It states that the happiness advantage that whites once had over blacks are diminishing. That’s it. What were you trying to prove with that? I am open to discussion to it, I’d love to hear you defend yourself against that one.
Ok, the 3rd article you listed was not an article. You simply listed “https://www.happinessresearchinstitute.com/”
I asked you to produce the studies you said that say how freedom is so important to happiness. And the only article you listed that was peer-reviewed, which was article 1, “https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10902-015-9620-1” goes AGAINST what you are saying for the most part. It says freedom IS a factor, but it’s weight is 3% give or take a bit in the large scheme of human happiness.
I am not going to search the entire ‘happiness research institute’ and do your homework for you. You should have had peer-reviewed articles ready for me to analyze.
Lastly, in the 4th article, which was not even peer-reviewed, as if cnbc is a reliable source, https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/20/this-harvard-study-reveals-how-you-can-be-happier-and-more-successful.html, if you do a crtl+f, it has ZERO key words listing to the words ‘freedom’. ZERO.
Come on dude. In fact, it goes again to state that, ““The surprising finding is that our relationships and how happy we are in our relationships has a powerful influence on our health,” Robert Waldinger, a psychiatrist and professor at Harvard Medical School, told The Harvard Gazette in 2017. “Taking care of your body is important, but tending to your relationships is a form of self-care too. That, I think, is the revelation.””
tl;dr: Relationships are super important for health and happiness. Taking care of the body is also a huge priority.
So if you have anymore science, please throw it at me. I’ll dissect it. Also feel free to defend your articles listed. Which was one full text article, and the other being abstract only, and not relating to freedom at all.
Im in complete agreement. I’m learning how to just accept how people are sometimes and see that it makes it all the more supringly easier for me…
slipping right through the front door once I have learned to see the opening
I must admit something is off here. Why is A2.0 Business Course back on sale? If you go on link here: https://alpha20.teachable.com/p/alpha20businesscourse/ you can get the course for now raised price 997$.
How is that possible? Course was “supposed” to be on sale only for 1 week only. That’s what Caleb said. “You have one week and then I’m shutting down this course permanently”. He even wrote that in articles! And lo and behold that piece of article is missing! The others A2.0 Business Course related articles are still available in the archive.
Who can get 2+2 it’s obviously a planned action. Even in this ‘Maximum Freedom Course’ he changed the way he speaks about them (courses). This time he said “I’ll never sell this course for this price again!” In past courses he said he will never sell them again and you can’t get them unless you buy in that 1 week window!
So Caleb? Why “sudden” change of mind?
@Robert
Nothing more than an old sales technique. People fear loss more than gain. Say it’s going to expire soon, and it increases agency in the individual though fear. Humans take action with emotions; rationalize their decision with logic.
I don’t really care since this whole thing smells like bullshit to begin with. Just hoping to open some eyes on his credibility. Simply listing sources and hope I back down is hilarious. Thinks he’ll never actually be looked into.
Lar – A detailed debate about the scientific studies I’ve read is off-topic for this discussion. I have pages and pages of these studies. Per my usual rules you’re welcome to discuss it but I won’t (in this thread). The next time I ask for someone to debate me on any topic they want, like I did here, I expect you to be front and center to volunteer so you can show the world how wrong I am.
You will notice that that last time I asked for someone to debate me, no one volunteered with anything I really disagreed with. I always find it interesting that the only time guys come out of the woodwork with big disagreements with me is when I aggressively sell something. Hmmmm… that should tell you something.
Correct. Relationships and health are two of the three core pillars of the Alpha Male 2.0. On Sunday I have an article going up on both blogs (that is already written) which states exactly that.
We don’t disagree. You’re just pissed off I’m selling something. Which is fine. Please don’t buy it.
As I stated in my Instagram videos several weeks ago, It was back on sale for one week only for Freedomfest participants when I was there back in July for an additional $300. If that purchase button is still there and still working (it shouldn’t be), then my staff made an error since it should have been disabled quite a while ago. I’ll go check when I get a few minutes (I’m traveling right now). If it really does work, and someone ends up purchasing it, their money will be refunded and they will not get the course and will receive an apology.
Incorrect. We removed the vast majority of them because I didn’t want the archive of my blogs filled with ads saying things like “Just 3 more days to buy the course, guys!”. Just the articles with real content remained, about three of them I think.
Correct. Literally everything I do is a planned action to make the most amount of money possible.
Correct.
Next year I will probably repurpose and update the courses and sell them at triple or quadruple the prices there were originally sold. That way it’s fair to the guys who purchased the courses during their release weeks. They will not be the same course nor will they will not be sold at the same low price. I have a video going up next week explaining this further.
Exactly. It works well.
I’ve just explained everything fully and will continue to do so. If you still think this is “all bullshit,” then okay, please don’t purchase anything I sell and tell everyone not to buy them either. That’s fine with me.
I didn’t expect you to back down; I know my audience very well and I expected you to do exactly what you promised. AND I expect you to volunteer to debate me next time I ask for a hater/disagreer to do so (which I will very soon; it’s coming up on the blog topic agenda).
Duuuuuude, you’ve got to be kidding. I’ve been doing this for 10+ years and I know from vast experience that every move I make, every statement I make, every mistake I make or my staff makes, will be over-scrutinized by thousands of men all over the internet. You are quite unaware of the time and care I take in the things I publicly say and do and the things I purposely choose to not publicly say or do because of this.
All I can do is be as honest and as transparent as possible (note all the items above where I agreed with you guys regarding how I try to sell stuff and make money) and everyone can make up their own minds.
Well I have to say he is an excellent salesman and copywriter. If nothing else one can learn about those from him. Its a pitty those arent the main focus of his courses because after seeing a few of these it became clear to me thats his main expertise by far.
@Lar
This has been my experience with Caleb and his research across all his blogs.
When you actually look at any of his studies with a remotely critical eye, they completely fall apart and rarely support his points. Sometimes they even point in the opposite direction. I suspect he counts on people not doing their due diligence and actually parsing through the data.
It’s the Ben Shapiro approach.
Sure, occasionally he might have a source that supports his point, but that’s not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Ironically, I agreed with his point about freedom and I clicked the links because I wanted him to be right. But for the 5th or so time I was disappointed.
Go click the links yourselves. One disapproves his point, one is about income only, and the other one is not a study but an article about how important relationships are to your happiness.
Oh and one, as you pointed out, is literally just a link to the Happiness Research Institute homepage. Embarrassing.
@Investor: Indeed.
@Swiggity Swooty: Ah, so you too have a critical eye! As for true enlightenment on how to be a male in our strange world now, take a look at Jordan B. Peterson’s philosophy. After buying his book, analyzing what he says – he’s VERY self critical of his own analysis. Truly no bullshit. It’s really fun trying to find holes in his argument, but he covers his bases well.
@Caleb: You misunderstand. I am a TRUTH seeker. Also, on your comment rules, you said it yourself, “No personal attacks,” so what exactly are you doing in your responses to us? I might have done it in my response – but don’t go arguing that. It’s because I don’t have time to edit this. Anyways, since you clearly enjoy being dissected, I’ll give it to you again:
0. Trying to use force and intimidation with the silly idea of the ‘debate’ thing is retarded. Ain’t nobody got time for that. That’s exactly what you’re hoping for again. I’m not an internet troll, nor a hater. I don’t give a shit about who you are, or what you even stand for. I just can’t stand people misusing science as a man of academia. We live in an age where as long as you quote, ‘study’ ‘article’ ‘science’ people eat it up for face value because they aren’t trained to dissect the information themselves – and clearly neither are you. But that’s not the point. I don’t care. I am a truth seeker. A man of critical thinking – skepticism at it’s core. If you want to prove something, then you can prove it here in a comment section like we all have in a civilized manner. Use words – not emotions. Use logic. Prove it to me you can think. We’re all waiting.
1. I don’t disagree that you understand relationships + health (physical + mental) are pillars to happiness. In fact, I don’t even disagree that freedom is a potential factor for happiness/life satisfaction. My problem is that it’s so minute to the point that even if you were to achieve ‘freedom’, you would not be happier to a point of where you’d notice it. This is because the research even shows that it’s weighted importance is about 3%. Happiness + life satisfaction is subjective. This means that each person’s reality is their own reality. So if freedom for you is 35% important, then great. But according to the vast majority, it is weighted at 3% as an influencing factor to their life satisfaction and happiness.
2. I don’t give a shit if you sell something. We are all selling something everyday, whether it be yourself, your idea, an idea, your skills, etc. I am a former salesman – selling is reality. Those who can’t see it that way are just scared and oversold. I respect sales.
My issue is with sharks like you dressed as consultants. Your product for this PARTICULAR article. I haven’t even read your other articles before. Got recommended this by a stupid google recommendation – consider that your downfall – mere chance.
A shark salesman is someone who uses emotion to convince people to buy a product that they cannot stand by. That’s like me selling sugar water as vitamins to the public. It’s morally wrong. I don’t care if you genuinely believe in your material or not – the research you have provided has no basis.
So where did you go wrong? You stated ‘science’ supports x. That’s my problem. IF you were to say, based on my experience, freedom is very important to life satisfaction – then why would I even be here? I can’t argue with your point of view, and I would even agree to an extent.
So again, you IMPLIED I am ‘pissed off’ that you are selling something. I don’t care about what you sell. I just care that you are using science to support an argument with no scientific basis. See the issue now?
3. I have no basis on whether you expected me to back down, but I can imply as much because you tried to bombard me with ill thought out sources in hopes I wouldn’t actually analyze them. Otherwise, would you really post such poor links to me? If I were to believe that truth – then it just implies you are a dumbass. I hope you aren’t a dumbass, and therefore the answer is that you are a shark – someone trying to bombard me with sources in hopes I won’t analyze them.
4. Regardless of whether you do something for 10+ years or not means nothing. Vast majority of people will never find your information, and those that see it for what it is will leave anyway. Plus you can always just delete comments and make it like a communist happy society. So who knows.
All I did was dissect the your own thoughts and words. Actions speak louder than words. You gave me a spiel of bullshit links except for 1 – and that went against your argument in that freedom is a large determinant to men’s life satisfaction. It is not even remotely true according to that study, and it was actually pretty well done. You do not expect people to over-scrutinize because the average person does not know how to critically think. They just react to emotional appeal like apes. I know – I’m a former salesman and a teacher.
As a teacher – whenever I see my idiot students just absorbing instead of questioning what I say as fact, I remind them of that.
The happiest people are those who achieve true freedom – that is internal rather than external source of freedom. It does not matter about external circumstances but you have freedom over your own thoughts and feelings and that is true freedom and happiness no matter what. Caleb talks about this often talking about stupidity of external solutions and also about outcome independence – this is one of the main reason I listen to him or started to. That and the fact he is the only one I know who talks about non monogamy. However I am missing is that he does not teach how to exactly achieve those other than in a general and vague way or by simply having redundancy (fine, but what if you don’t have that?). Well, for me it is fine, I get that information somewhere else (and I am sure better than Caleb could manage) so I come here for the other stuff but perhaps this is what you are missing here?
@Investor:
The article defines what they meant by freedom. They meant it as: https://i.ibb.co/LkMHrVh/Screenshot-2019-08-23-at-10-42-45.png (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10902-015-9620-1)
I would disagree with Caleb purely because of the fact that he thinks being tied down to societal rules is why we are unhappy. Humans are social creatures – male or female. Being tied down to these rules is what we prefer – it’s why so many of us are followers instead of leaders. I would look at pros and cons of monogamy seriously before you decide on what you prefer. That’s a trap mentality. A major con of polygamy is that when you seek casual partners, you yourself become a casual partner. You end up not learning how to be resolve conflicts involved in long term relationships. You end up a boy in an old body – ever hear the #1 complaint women have? “I wish the men I would date would grow up!” That’s a pretty bad outcome to ME. Whether or not you believe it is the case or not or whether it matters or not to you is up to you. But look at the pros and cons.
Again, this is all my opinion. I have solid reasons for believing what I do, but whether those reasons are right or matter to you enough is different. I don’t seek to change your mind. Just tossing out another pov.
I don’t know what you mean by your last statement, but it sounds like to me you are inferring I am lacking freedom of some sort (correct me if I am wrong – not lashing out at you). I am not – well, at least I don’t think so – it may look like it to you or someone else (but all that matters is whether I think so – aka internal freedom right?) I am very happy with what I do as a leader in my community, and am planning on launching my own business on fitness and mentality within a year or two after I get my R.N. license in January to help back up my plans. The only thing that makes me happy is teaching people to seek truth – because they will stop lying to themselves, and also realize how flawed they are and be able to take action.
This is why I don’t agree with his methodology. It goes against my philosophy on life. Truth is the protocol for life. Never state something as fact if it is not verified as such. That’s just ignorant and a misuse of power.
(just got loads of free time right now until my last semester of nursing starts monday.
Is this based on the idea that poly has to be short lived? I like to have multiple long term women. I like the variety and availability. I have thought about the future though and whether this will continue and how it would. I might reconsider when I meet the right girl. I think for me it doesnt have to be that I always have others just have the option open.
I am sure you could have come up with a better argument. This one is definitely not. Many of these women are childish themselves or when you investigate what they mean by this it is often stuff that is related to that they want a man who does exactly what they want. The funny thing is there are plenty of such men but interestingly those men are not wanted by women. Why is that? Ever thought about it this way?
I meant that Caleb just assumes everyone wants freedom so he advertises ways to increases but doesn’t explain why we should want freedom or what kind of freedom is the real freedom. Well he does in some places but the information is insufficient – perhaps he assumes it is obvious to everyone. Your comment suggests you are not one of those people and I suggested perhaps you were missing this explanation.
I am not interested in any scientific studies on happiness and freedom. I have an understanding of what true freedom means and have methods and teachings for working towards it elsewhere. When I look at Calebs stuff I don’t care about his references to convince us to want it I only look at content and if its relevant to what I am interesting in right now – for example I bought his book on younger women because I was struggling with that aspect of my dating and I find the information there excellent. But perhaps I am a more prudent and critical consumer than most.
That sounds very nice and interesting. I guess you are going about relative truth though? Or so called conditioned truth?
@Investor: I really like what you have to say!
I’ll try my best to answer what you asked of me 1 by 1.
1. Is poly short lived?
I don’t think that’s really the question. To me, it’s understanding the two distinct games men play vs women play in terms of evolutionary reproduction.
Men play polygamy – we aim to inseminate as many women as possible.
Women play Hypergamy – this means they aim to mate with the most fit mate – the alpha male so to speak. This is why women often are attracted to taken men despite the irony in that if he actually chases you – he’s an unfit mate because if he’ll cheat once; he’ll cheat on you too (potentially). Women are attracted to taken mates because it means you are verified by another one of their kind. Commitment is sexy to women because they want to make sure that if they do mate and pro-create, that child they create will have resources from you, and grow up with a father.
Anyways, this is in response to you preferring a wide variety of choices. This is beneficial to you – but not beneficial to them in the long term. No woman is that stupid to not aim for a long term solution unless they are actually just that – stupid. At least from an evolutionary point of view.
And good on you for considering how it’ll go when you meet the right girl. I think your plan is fine – when you meet the right girl, give it a shot. It’s what I tell my friends who are 19-25 anyway. But if you are hitting 30’s, you might need to reconsider your ideology. You want to make sure you spend time practicing long term relationships with just 1 person and see what it’s like or you can potentially get in a marriage during the honey moon phase and have a quick divorce in 2 years when it fades. That’s just prudent advice considering how destructive divorces are, not to mention how common day they are now.
2. “I wish men would grow up!”
Ah it’s not an argument here. It’s just an opinion I have based on my experiences. But don’t worry, it’s just as you said, they are often just as immature and mentally undeveloped :). This applies to both parties – men and women. I’m just saying it’s better to be in a position of being aware of your immaturity (not you specifically, just in general as a rule). I prefer to assume a stance of continual learning. We are always incomplete and flawed, but this doesn’t mean aiming to be better than we were the day before is a waste of time.
So in answer to your question if I’ve ever thought about it this way – yes. Yes I have. I think about things as unbiased and from as many point of views as I possibly can (as best of my ability).
3a. “Well he does in some places but the information is insufficient – perhaps he assumes it is obvious to everyone. ”
Remember – there is no such thing as ‘common sense’. Common sense is based off of collective societal understanding of something as fact. This means it’s subjective. When I met my girl, I thought everyone just left the toilet seat up. Clearly not – it wasn’t common sense to her – of course, it also wasn’t common sense to me that I should put it down. So who is right? Neither of us. That’s why common sense is a poor argument. You either list something or you fail to do so.
3b. “Your comment suggests you are not one of those people and I suggested perhaps you were missing this explanation.”
You are correct in assuming that I am ‘one of those people’ who need more information – however, you are incorrect in determining you do not need more information. You should never take something for face value when it comes to saying something is ‘fact’. If he says SCIENCE SUPPORTS XYZ – then you should think, “Where is the science, what does it say, how was it done, why was it done, is it credible, how did they prove it? (by the way, you can’t prove anything with science. It only supports it until it’s later refuted). If he said, “based on my experience,” then it’s up to you to see if your experiences align with his and continue to listen or not. You cannot argue if someone’s experiences are true or not. You cannot deny their life.
Just because you are not interested in scientific studies does not mean you should not analyze what he says or does. If someone says they will fix your clogged toilet for 30 dollars, and you come back after having paid and find it’s not fixed – what does it say about that person?
Caleb said he was going to list sources to defend his scientific claim, and he did a terrible job. Then he tried to intimidate me with the stupid debate website thing.
Actions speak louder than words. My image of him is not what yours is. And that’s fine – but you should be wary that you aren’t defending him out of ‘liking him’ or anything silly along those lines. Be unbiased and judge a person objectively based on their actions.
He objectively failed to prove his scientific claim – and yet prefers to profit of it to this day and hour.
Then you can make inferences based off of this behavior that is considered true and factual. This is not being judgmental. This is called being critical. Being judgmental is to be critical of something or someone without a sound basis for it.
3c. “When I look at Calebs stuff I don’t care about his references to convince us to want it I only look at content and if its relevant to what I am interesting in right now”
That’s fine – if you align with his experiences like I said, then you should go and read his content and align yourself with his reality. But if he’s blatantly lying to you, then you better be aware of it. Because he’s not your friend if that’s the case. Remember that. He’s here to make money first and foremost. That’s not a bad thing, but look at actions and infer the motive.
Does it mean he’s not credible on certain things? No. He could very well be credible on other subjects and his experiences could be correct to act as a bible for others. But he needs to stop referencing science if he can’t use it. Science is like a machine gun – it’s a powerful weapon, but in the hands of a novice, it’s worthless and often backfires as it did here.
4. “Relative truth or conditioned truth”
Never use phrases that are not common sense. I will wait for you to define what you mean by this.
It was not meant as a question but that your comment implied thats what you thought. I guess it isn’t the case.
Exactly. That is why it is natural for to have many women and why the women feel more attracted to me since I started doing this. Everyone benefits from this – only thing is that women are confused in the regard that they often don’t know what they want – they say they want combinations that do not exists. Does she think if I am good with women and have high sex drive and know how to make her cum easily I will only want to fuck her? Really? But I don’t want to cheat so I do this instead. I always tell the women who say they don’t like what I do this: then why don’t you get one of those nerdy guys who are hopeless with women? They won’t get any other woman and will do what you want. There is literally the same answer always: eeehhh noooo, I don’t want that…
Ahh, that is what I meant by my question if you think poly cant be long term. Why can’t you have commitment in poly? Commitment doesnt mean that I don’t have other women, it means I care about her and she cares about me and we make it long term and share a lot of things and develop each other, go on holidays together, have romance etc. That has nothing to do with whether I have another woman who I do this with (I know its not possible for all men but some of us have this capacity) or just some girl on the side who I bang once in a while.
Its not about being beneficial or not its about realism. Like I said before if she thinks I am really a catch and alpha male does she think I will not bang other women? And if I said yes darling I wont bang anyone else anymore, will she still think I am the alpha male? Maybe not immediately but my behaviour would change – becoming more needy etc. This is what most women don’t understand. Its impossible or near impossible for most men to not be needy when they have high sex drive and don’t have other sexual options. That is the main reason why women are so confused about this and don’t know what they want.
Well I am over 30 and that is exactly why I cannot have monogamous relationships with women who are not my dream woman in every possible way. How else would I meet such a woman? But then again maybe that idea is perhaps over idealistic that such a person would exist but then why do we think we need to get it all from one person? Most people think that when they are young that they can and then they don’t find that person and settle for something less. Would you wanna be in a monogamous relationship with someone who has settled for you even though you arent her ideal?
I will practice with multiple partners at the same time. I had a mono gf in the past and the one thing that was bad and what made it fail eventually was that I couldn’t bang and date other women. Everything else was great. I was so frustrated and on top of that felt really guilty for wanting other women and was hating myself for it. I don’t wanna do that again.
Well, I think we discussed it above – see my comments about women not knowing what they want.
That is not what I meant. I am just saying I do not care about what methods he uses to sell stuff. Nor do I care about any evidence or lack of thereof. I have actually a science background – but a natural science and these studies by social scientists are often laughable to people like me anyway.
Just because someone is not good at one thing or not expert at some other things doesn’t mean he doesn’t have some other useful experience. I know this is not how most people evaluate others but I only like to just see what I can use here and take that and I filter the rest. If you don’t do that I am not sure how you can stand reading scientific or news articles. You know how much nonsense I have seen in high prestige scientific journal articles written by famous professors? But that is fine, because just because some of it is crap doesn’t mean all of it is. But I know, most people arent this objective so for others it is probably a deal breaker.
No, it was meant relative / conditioned truth. As in alternate saying of same thing. It was a question to you. As in, I am assuming you are talking about this, as opposed to the absolute truth.
So now we go into philosophy.
Can you ever know the absolute truth? This kind of stuff. Of course on the relative level there is not absolute, if you look at something from a different angle you see something else. But actually it doesn’t mean they are wrong just different part of the same totality.
Likewise, with what you say about sociatal programming – they are concepts. Concepts can be useful but having concepts means you are further from truth and true (internal) freedom. Thinking that everything is real and that you exist is also a concept. It is a useful concept but it is just that – a concept. But some concepts can be harmful, if you think too strongly of yourself and your ego as too real you have all kinds of problems.
@Investor: Love the discussion so far! It’s real clean 🙂
I’ll start this off with a preface: Polygamy is neither good or bad. But like all things in life, there is a reason for why things are the way they are. There is a REASON why monogamy is the standard. But I’m not going to get into that. Polygamy can exist – but it’s not what people think it is I think. It’s more like just friends with benefits – but not too far committed emotionally. People view ideal polygamy as being EQUALLY invested in all members emotionally and sexually. Sounds too good to be true – cause it is. I’ve looked into it myself since I was curious about open relationships, but the answer I came upon wasn’t a good one. Again, I’m not about to say research or science says xyz. I am not in the mood to dig up all of that and write an essay when school is about to make me do that and more in about 3 days haha.
1. “Women are confused on what they want”
Haha, women just want an alpha male – but these are probably the people you don’t want anyway. Anyone that puts you up on a pedestal is just a turn off. I wouldn’t say that ‘everyone’ benefits from polygamy. I would say that in your opinion and your experiences that you’ve seen more pros than cons of polygamy. Because to be ignorant of the cons is a warning sign to yourself. There are pros and cons to EVERYTHING in life. Life after all is a game of trade-offs.
And good on you man for telling women straight up you aren’t looking for commitment right now. That’s called not being an asshole :).
2. Poly can be long term potentially.
I am not saying poly cannot be long term. If you can make it work, then say no more. But just because you made it work does not mean you can make it work for others. Nor is it the better solution – but that would depend on your goals and needs right? There is a reason monogamy is the case rule. I’d give or take 70% of relationships are monogamous.
Here are some bite sized philosophy on polyamory: https://youtu.be/oUStlqE61fc?t=58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i76VrRf-aZI
Why marriage: https://youtu.be/Rc_NNjV0s1o
3. “Its not about being beneficial or not its about realism. Like I said before if she thinks I am really a catch and alpha male does she think I will not bang other women? And if I said yes darling I wont bang anyone else anymore, will she still think I am the alpha male?”
I have a different opinion. Because you are a desirable man, and you chose a woman of your choice, and you deny all other attempts to woo you – I think that’s what makes you a real man. You don’t have to go out and actually fuck them or make emotional attachments to prove you are alpha. But you can for example, have her see how desirable you are in public to others. That’s how I do it at least.
I don’t think that having a high sex drive is limited to just men. I would just say that it’s a relationship specific issue if he/she isn’t putting out enough. And if your answer is just to fuck others – well, isn’t that a pretty immature response? I mean, it’s looking for the easy way out. Anything worth having in life never comes easy. There are some real benefits to a monogamous relationship. For me, it’s about having that one person I can relate to and carve out an entire life with. Someone to share it with and paint it together. You just can’t do that in a poly. It’s too fragmented. You cannot give 100% to 3 relationships at once. Instead, you give 33% 33% and 33%. Or more likely, 66%, 17% and 17%.
People want to have a great looking body – but they don’t want to plan, learn, or live a different way. They just want to take a pill or something. Like I said before, your actions speak louder than words. If someone’s response to life was just to take the shortcut each time instead of figuring out a compromise with another human, that gives me a pretty low evaluation of their values and mental maturity. Not like it should matter what I think of them anyway, but I think objectively, most people would think the same. Then you have yourself a real issue right? This is because one form of truth is based on what the collective believes.
This is just based on my experience as a 24 y.o. man who is married with immense ups and downs in my relationship with one woman – 6 years together now. Seen all the hell that could possibly come with it. (Married for 1 year, 5 years dating to be clear).
That is one particular type of non monogamy and it is not what I do, nor is it what the people here do or suggest (most of them anyway…).
Of course, that is why I admitted to you I sometimes thinking about it concerning the future and am not sure if it will fully stay that way. For now it works for me but for example one main con for me is the fact that she can have other guys too, but for me its more important that I can have other women, way more important so for now it works for me. Other options would be that I would do “normal stuff” and cheat, which I don’t want to do (and maybe she would cheat too! so there we go anyway). And by the way large percentage of people who say they do complete mono cheat or been cheated on. Its super normalized. Is that still a monogamy? No its not, its just a dishonest version. Like I said I am doing this because it would be cheating otherwise (or me being frustrated all the time), or short term relationships and I want long term. I hate it when women leave but not so much if I have other women.
I didn’t say I say that to them straight up. Why would I say that? It would be a lie. I am looking for commitment just not the kind where they expect me to be monogamous 100% of the time. She can be mono if she wants. I dont force her to be open and I dont expect for her to force me to be mono. Simple. I don’t say anything unless I decide she should be a very serious gf or live together. They usually bring it up at some point while dating and then I tell her but I drop hints over time that there may be other women in my life and often they get the message and don’t ask any questions.
Exactly, it’s what I want or need (though need is a strange word) and perhaps only right now. Who knows.
That includes or excludes cheating? Remember if there is cheating it means its not monogamy, by definition. At least to me, monogamy means you have one partner and you stay together.
In fact to me monogamy is like you get one partner and you don’t date anyone else even initially and you stay together super long term – like until it clearly doesn’t work anymore and you both agree on it after an extensive discussion where you exhausted all options. This is not what most women do (nowadays?). I hate this serial monogamy stuff most women (or men too? I dont know I dont care what men do) nowadays unless I can have other women. I feel women have too much power in dating and doing what I do brings power back to me and in minimum makes it equal. My father disagrees with me (of course) and has some good points but that’s another (long) story.
Here is the part where I will tell you I won’t look at your links because I don’t care about this stuff. Just say what you wanna say here but I don’t wanna watch some videos or read some articles or studies – same reason as why I don’t care about Calebs links. And it makes sense: you should be able to explain the idea in a few words (to both you and Caleb I say this).
Well, lets put it this way: if you do mono you both need to be super hot for each other and have same sex drive, otherwise it’s not going to work. In non mono can still work if you don’t do this. And remember if your solution is cheating then you aren’t doing mono anymore!
Why? Do you think a meaningful relationship means that you have to give up freedom? Wrong way to think about it.
I hear this often in many other contexts and phrased differently too, but I fundamentally disagree entirely. If it is the right thing (for you) it should be easy! Because then it means it was the right thing! If its not easy it means you are doing something wrong. Maybe its your cultural upbringing (talk about concepts) – it sounds very Christian: you need to suffer to redeem your sins and earn your place! or perhaps very German: work hard! In fact in Germany they have a saying: work, build a house, pay taxes and die. Is this the life you want? I even apply this to work: if its a 40h work week I see that as a guideline not that I will work 40h. I should work less! Why? Because it means I am efficient and better! If you need to work 40h and are not in education you are doing something wrong. Thats my attitude to work and life. The learning can and often is very hard but afterwards it should be easy otherwise why did you do the learning? And what did you learn?
And as a leaving note so you understand what type of person I am:
Happiness is not the reason you exist. If you are unhappy, and think that being happy is the key to living a good life, you are deeply mistaken.
Life is mainly made up of suffering. Life is not fun. Life is hard. That’s why people seek out gurus whether they be credible or not. Those that appeal to instant gratification like Caleb’s appeal towards normalizing poly works wonders.
Strength and the pursuit of mental clarity is what matters above all else. Otherwise, what makes you so different from the squirrel on your yard, or the dog in your house? They pursue happiness, and avoid unpleasant things. However, our society clearly values things that are hard to achieve – because they represent a prolonged demonstration of pain and suffering all to achieve a delayed gratification that is many times amplified beyond what can attained instantly.
Weightloss. Looking shredded. Making lots of money. Mental clarity in terms of doing your best to be skeptical of everything. Emotional intelligence. You name it – you know why these people are your heroes and why they are the role models of our society.
Stop chasing happiness like an idiot and that’s the true key to happiness. The moment you accept the fact that you aren’t special, and that you shouldn’t be happy all the time is when you will be the most happiest.
Those without strength will be subject to those with it. Therefore, gaining strength, and then choosing not to utilize it in a malevolent manner is what makes you morally just.
Choosing to block off outside information that could potentially make you better off in my opinion is what I see as fear. Fear that you could be wrong. Fear that you will have to change something if you learn something.
And it proves intellectual laziness – which if you think is a good trait to have, then by all means, live it.
I have chosen my path.
I said before that true happiness comes from inside and not being dependent on other things. It is like this: true and lasting happiness comes when you gain distance from emotions and feelings and let them just come and go and develop the feeling that everything is fine as it is.
I am not there yet but that is the goal.
I still want things. I want to travel and see more of the world, I like nice dinners and I want to bang a lot of very young and very hot women. I want to be an emperor and have many children who will spawn my own country one day. I want to have my own university and develop space travel there and then be the captain of that spaceship. Ok the last few were far fetched but if you asked me what I want without any limitations this is it. And why I do what I do on the relative level.
But I know these are external things so I am also working on myself in this way – to create the lasting values.
I am not there yet but that is the goal.
I still want things. I want to travel and see more of the world, I like nice dinners and I want to bang a lot of young and very hot women. I want to be an emperor and have many children who will spawn my own country one day. I want to have my own university and develop space travel there and then be the captain of that spaceship. Ok the last few were far fetched but if you asked me what I want without any limitations this is it. And why I do what I do on the relative level.
But I know these are external things so I am also working on myself in this way – to create the lasting values.
My reply got the spam filter thing so it will probably appear here later.
But, I would be interested to talk to you outside of this blog, I think we have some interesting things to discuss. Seems to me we have mostly same views actually. Is there some way I can find you to send you email or something? Do you have a public profile or blog somewhere?
Caleb’s above comment to his naysayers is the reason I’ll probably get this course and why I’ve trusted him with purchases in the past. He took the time to address their concerns, didn’t get upset, and left their comments up for all to see without deleting them. Most bloggers in this sphere wouldn’t have done any of that!!!
Is Caleb perfect? No! You can find flaws in any argument if you dig deep enough. He’s at least willing to talk to people who disagree with him without losing his cool.
Swiggity Swooty didn’t even read his response and Lar appears to be a traditionalist with a personal axe to grind.
Any other blogger in the manosphere would have deleted those comments and banned those guys. Caleb lets them have their say. It speaks volumes about his integrity.
@Investor
I’m outtie from here. Was just trying to find something mentally stimulating before I get back to school. You can contact my burner email. I don’t blog or anything like that. Just a guy interested in how to be all I can be, I’m still young ya know.
Reddit1234001@gmail.com
Be glad to just chat about stuff.
FYI I just checked and that $997 button was indeed still on the sales site for a prior course for Freedomfest attendees only. That was an error my staff made. It should have only been up for four days. (I’m pretty sure the button would not have worked if you had gone through the entire shopping cart process.)
I just had the button removed. I apologize to everyone if there was any confusion.
I consider that part of my job and my responsibility (as long as ad hominems aren’t made, and no one in this thread has made any yet). I like it when people disagree with me. I just wish more people did it in good faith. Sitting angrily on the sidelines and then suddenly pouncing on some minor side-point only when I aggressively sell something is not in good faith (and kinda lame in my view). But that’s the way some people are I guess. Regardless, I will continue respond to all objections from anyone that don’t contain ad hominems, regardless of the spirit in which they are given.
@CJ: I’d appreciate if you provided another link that goes specifically into how freedom is central to men’s happiness, or even just to people’s happiness in general. I was interested too when that exchange started but looking now at the links you gave they don’t seem to be about that specific claim, not even partially. Intuitively I tend to think the claim is true, but that’s not the point.
That is blatantly incorrect. None of them state that it is the only thing responsible (I don’t think any of my studies show that) but at least three of them show it’s a strong factor.
But like I said, if you dislike those four links I pulled that’s fine, but I’m not discussing that here since that narrow subject is too off-topic to this article. But I think it’s an important topic so I’ll do an entire article devoted to it; I’ve just added it to the topic list.
You have to be kidding right? Freedom is minute for your happiness? Then it doesn’t change your happiness much if you are bossed around? Makes you content.
And you need science to prove the opposite?
You’d be surprised. Freedom requires much thinking and being bossed around is easy, SP-approved way of validated life. I’m not sure about Lar exact circumstances, but you may want to reread his posts to see which points about himself he accents – despite saying to be all-truth, SP is highly valuable for him and it’s ‘dissection’ is avoided.
Hey BD
….beyond funny 😆 how badly some people just flat out shovel
Shit..go off the rails …fail to even have a hint that they just do not want to even examine SP…we aren’t still burning people at the stake …you will survive if you have an independent thought
Ugh, I’m rereading this thread and some of Lar’s replies are so appalling. What a migraine-worthy mishmash of SP, naturalistic fallacy, circularity and hamster spinning, just to object to consistent happiness being a worthy goal.
Granted, I do think more specific scientific sources are required *IF* CJ wants scientific authority backing his views, but tbh, technically he doesn’t even need that: if your target audience is defined as the men who happen to want long term happiness or to equate it with freedom, you have no need to scientifically prove that that goal is important to everyone/ to most people: the goal is self-evidently valid to those who agree to it, end of story. The blog already states that it’s only aimed for a few percent of men. What *might* be interesting to investigate scientifically is the average happiness levels of non-alpha-2.0s, though that’d be very hard to nail down.
I’m guessing that part of the misunderstanding comes from CJ’s use of the terms “the purpose of life”, “meant to be”, etc: one may not believe in any external purpose/meaning at all and still strongly agree with 2.0 goals, so it can lead to fake disagreement.
Yes but it doesn’t change anything. His posts are full of BS that shows he is someone with a twisted illogical way of thinking. Not sure if he was serious or wanted to just play devil’s advocate just for the sake of it. To some degree he is saying I’m happy to be unhappy that’s life. Well no thats not life.
I’m sure some of us saw the 2 sides of the coin. And there is not even a remote comparison.
Being free, once you get there, makes your life multiple times better. Of course there are downsides to that also, nothing is perfect but it doesn’t even compare.
Is like saying being piss poor is the way of life but once I give you 100m you will be much happier, unless you are some weirdo or a loser.
Agreed. Still, it is interesting to see what is happening with others while you’re chipping your way toward happiness and freedom. To me, it is surprising to value UNhappiness, but well… Times are such, most people do exactly that. Better for us, I guess.
He is both unhappy and bored, a combination that creates those kinds of long and angry comments regarding very minor issues.
It describes a lot of guys who do drive-by bitching or trolling at my blogs, and other people’s blogs as well. It’s not unusual.